Proposed design for BP2 (version 2013)

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5 years 7 months ago - 5 years 7 months ago #2221 by Desertfox
Replied by Desertfox on topic Proposed design for BP2 (version 2013)
Hey Aurelius, those are some interesting ideas. Here are some considerations:

-for this system (mineral special) to really work, the number of minerals should be severely limited, to like 10-20 max. (similar to the great space strategy game Aurora 4X). This would have ramifications for the component/unit designer.
-downside: limits the player for all time based on a single choice made at the beginning of the game. I always hate such choices. It also requires you to choose a guild based on your initial choice instead of liking the other members or wanting to join a specific guild based on roleplay. I prefer gamerules in which you can potentially do everything.
-having minerals follow the player, lessens a potential need to fight over minerals. Minerals instead moving away from players is harder for big players who tend to have a higher mineral consumption than weak players.
-how is trade between players possible without credits? Some kind of barter-economy?
-how do you solve viral expansion?
-mineral cost for upkeep? What if minerals run out? What if a player works a while to collect minerals, then goes on vacation for a few days, would that mean the minerals are gone when he comes back?

A good game design for BP2 must solve at least the following problems:
- balancing weak players versus strong players.
- balancing offline players versus online players.
- prevent viral expansion without limiting players too much.
- balancing eternal peace vs low survival rate of players.

Much is written about game design on the internet, there are even university courses on the subject. One hint I've picked up from write-ups: solving imbalanced combat by making combat impossible makes for boring games.

P.S. I have quit After Protocol over a year ago, partially because I've lost my interest in the economic system, partially because 24/7 MMO's are hard to combine with having a job, especially since it proved to be impossible to build a reliable offline defense. Nevertheless I'm probably going to lose my job later this year so I may jump back in.

Meanwhile I have been playing single player strategy games. The ones I enjoyed most were: Aurora 4x, Dwarf Fortress, Freecol, and my current favorite: Civilization IV with Caveman 2 Cosmos mod (which I consider the ultimate Civilization game).
Last edit: 5 years 7 months ago by Desertfox.

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5 years 7 months ago - 5 years 7 months ago #2222 by Desertfox
Replied by Desertfox on topic Proposed design for BP2 (version 2013)
Anyway, after making the above write-up a year ago, my mind kept on analyzing the game until it finally stopped a few weeks later (phew!).

Some of my final conclusions:

-my proposed system of armor design was waaaay too complex to be practical so I have made a much better one instead.

In the above system of materials (higher properties = better material), it would be better to go with composite armor and potential versus chosen resists.

see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composite_armor

Say every point of a property adds 10% to the potential resist. E.g. material X (hardness 3) and material Y (hardness 5) have a total of 8 hardness which gives 80% potential Impact resist. A player making armor
out of materials X and Y can set Impact resist to 80% without additional penalties. He can also set it to 100% but then he gets penalties (hitpoints, price) based on the difference (100% - 80% = 20%) between the potential and the chosen resist. If you also add material Z with hardness 2, you can set impact resist to 100% without additional penalties. However as you add more materials, the price and production time increases.
I'm keeping the system where you can set every resist to 50% without penalties but you can only put max 125 additional points above 50% in all resists total. However, setting all resists to at least 50% without the corresponding potential resists from materials can prove costly if you don't use a mix of materials with enough properties.

This system allows you to make any armor from both good and bad materials (but is easier with good materials). It is easy to understand, requires no hidden knowledge like decimals, and if the penalties and material properties are chosen well enough, it leads to lots of puzzling over the best combination.

You can make the puzzle more complex by adding contrary properties. If the property "magnetic isolation" adds 10% potential magnetic resist per point, the property "electrical conductivity" lowers potential magnetic resist by 5% per point. But I'm not sure if that is necessary.


-regarding empire efficiency: I've done some math on the system proposed in the first post, and it doesn't really work out well in practice. The penalties become too harsh as you approach the efficiency bottom.
I'd go with a less linear decrease in empire efficiency, e.g. 2% lowering per colony for the first 10 colonies, 1.5% lowering per colony for the next 10 colonies etc., and a higher bottom.

-trade income. Every trade partner (relations 81+) adds 5% to credit income, regardless of the size of the trade partner, with a maximum of 20 partners ( = 100% bonus), so there is no difference between declaring war on a big trade partner or on a small trade partner.

-soft cap on guild size. Every guild member above 10 members counts as 1 additional colony for empire efficiency calculations. If a player is already at the bottom, each additional guild member above 10 removes 5% of the trade income.
Last edit: 5 years 7 months ago by Desertfox.

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5 years 3 months ago #2268 by Cyrusblack2
Replied by Cyrusblack2 on topic Proposed design for BP2 (version 2013)
what would you all suggest? i know DessertFox has some great ideas (not all that i agreed with). i also have some of my own ideas to make BP more competitively playable, i got ideas layed out here for a mod, that i could do with the right help.
DF, i integrated some of your ideas in here.
docs.google.com/document/d/1dPe__UshDzB2...xq4bvR9qy7IHzGM/edit

id love suggestions or edits or advice.

dessert fox, i think your trying to solve the problems that come with the game, not the solutions which is to cut off problems at the source. i do really appreciate what you have been doing though.

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5 years 2 months ago #2273 by CavanJL
Replied by CavanJL on topic Proposed design for BP2 (version 2013)
Is anyone here capable of codding a modification of BP? I love the concept behind BP, and I would certainly play the mod if one was released, but why discuss ways to make the game better if no one is willing to act upon those suggestions?
My proposal: wait until Gods and Idols or Novus Aeterno is released, and when those games inevitably die, wait until the next 4x MMORTS to be released. This is an extremely niche and complex game genre that is difficult to create and support a playerbase for.

On an unrelated topic, does anyone here know the name of any 4x MMORTS? Boundless Planet, Picaroon, G&I 1.x, Beyond Protocol, Elements of War, and Mankind are all dead, poorly made, or are soon to die. As I previously stated, Gods and idols and Novus Aeterno are the only two MMORTS games I'm aware of that have an active playerbase and a neat design, but neither of those games has yet to be released.

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5 years 2 months ago #2274 by Cyrusblack2
Replied by Cyrusblack2 on topic Proposed design for BP2 (version 2013)
we have access to the source code. i know the VB language well enough to edit such. however, BP also requires MS SQL and dedicated server, which i currently do not have. most of the BP fanbase is kinda scattered and doesnt fully aggree on how to mod the game. so until then, its kinda going to be up in the air.

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5 years 6 days ago #2341 by endur
Replied by endur on topic Proposed design for BP2 (version 2013)
yeah I tried novus and its only 1/10 of what BP was/is :( I really wish BP would of worked out

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